Isn’t Black Swan just Perfect Blue for people who never watch anime?
Edit: For the people that don’t know
Excuse me, who are you?
Side note: Black Swan’s director was accused of plagiarizing Perfect Blue, which is honestly really obvious, and he denied it left and right. But Satoshi Kon said he and the director for Black Swan met in 2001. So take from that what you will.
Isn’t this the same thing as the hunger games copying Battle Royale and then denying it and acting like they came up with the idea themselves? It seems like a lot of western movies just steal shit from animes because the audience here for animes is much smaller than the general public who will go watch a Hollywood movie.
Well, ideas are not entirely original. Its possible that multiple people can have the same or similar idea at the same time without any knowledge of the others.
But in general I think that many ideas are stolen from other cultures and put forth as original, yes. And usually if its taken from anime, its probably because the audience its being presented to would refuse to watch it purely on principle of being anime specifically. Theyre fine with Disney Dumbo and Pixar Toy Story, but for whatever reason Japanese animation is crossing the line. Anti-anime people are weird like that.
Samurai movies and Westerns had a lot of cross pollination as well.
That’s fair assessment. I don’t know how many people didn’t care for anime even today with its more mainstream apeal.
No way, Hunger Games stole their premise from some random YA book series. /s
Well, supposedly they got both inspired by The Lottery, which is a book that predates Battle Royale as well.
Hmm that sounds more like how the Aztecs or Mayans killed kids for their harvest gods. (If I’m recalling which did which correctly)
Aromofsky also bought the rights for a live action movie adaptation so he could copy a scene for Requiem for a Dream.
Perfect Blue meets Princess Tutu
Is princess tutu any good? I’ve got through 2 episodes but got bored fairly quickly.
I enjoyed it but my guilty pleasure are mahou shoujo anime. This one has nice character development and it’s set to Swan Lake, it’s not for everyone!
I’m learning a lot today.
Damn, a bunch of movies shot up in priority on the list of movies I need to watch
Everything from Satoshi Kon for beginning. Then you can move on to Kurosawa who was also awesome editor and had great ideas on scene building and transitions.
Can we go even deeper?
Doesn’t go deeper than Satoshi Kon, creator of Perfect Blue. He made some 4-5 movies before being diagnosed with cancer and dying soon after. But even for such a short period he left a huuuuuge impact on movie industry. Can’t help but imagine what would happen had he lived.
Mandatory: Every frame a painting about his work.
I’m sure it’s based on some obscure 4 panel webcomic and I would not have it any other way.
You blew my mind. Perfect Blue has been on my list forever. Going to procure it right away. I really like the art style.
Its a great movie, but one you need to know is hard to follow for most people. Its also got some less than savory, intentionally VERY uncomfortable scenes that cause a lot of people to just stop watching the movie entirely.
Its a movie where I would say to prepare yourself for, but you literally cannot prepare enough for it.
You should, it’s a great movie!
Fred walked so Joker could run
I loved both movies, so maybe that checks out.
If you don’t identify with both protagonists I think they are pretty good movies.
But what do you think they are if I do identify?
Do what you can to find healthy supports, dont follow their lead (Yes I’m aware what a monumental task that is. Life is brutal and I dont know how to make it less brutal, but finding people that support you in the ways you best accept support is such an amazing boon if you can acquire it)
This genere, the “descent into madness” plot, is usually what’s defined as a cautionary tale. To be effective in it’s goal the protagonist is usually written as a character to which the reader can only partially identify, at worst, or who’s seen by the reader as “not me”. Some examples of such characters can be Don Quijote, Orlando, Achilles and so on. The non identifiability is a fundamental element for the reader to focus on what’s wrong in the protagonist’s way of behaving and to learn to avoid such behaviors himself.
In this framework both movies fail that part of the audience that identify with the protagonists.
But I did and I still liked them
Having seen neither (but Joker easier to guess from basic info) what’s black swan about?
Black Swan is about a ballet dancer who, driven by the demand to perfectly play the lead role in Tchaikovsky’s Swan Lake, descends into madness.
It’s with Natalie Portman and a truly amazing movie. I absolutely recommend watching it, even when you’re not into ballet.
Edit: To be honest just watch Joker too. It tells the story of Joker becoming the Joker and Joaquin Phoenix did an amazing job playing the role. It’s completely different from any DC / Batman movies and probably not what you’d expect from a movie that plays in this universe.
Both movies are great psychothrillers.
Joker is great because it’s using a well known character, but it could be literally anyone. From what I remember, the movie essentially had nothing to do with what Joker will become besides showing how it becomes that. There’s no supernatural things. No powers or special abilities. He’s just a guy. A guy who ends up being a character we all know, but he isn’t yet.
It’s using the marketing appeal and budget that DC stuff automatically gets, but it’s using it to tell a story that is almost outside of it.
A ballet dancer who’s going through some serious psychological shit, and the story of the movie is kinda a modern retelling of the ballet she’s performing in
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You know this does kinda make me wonder how many examples there are of what’s basically the exact same shot that aren’t the akira motorcycle slide. I know there’s another specific set of anime trope shots of characters getting crucified, as an homage to the many times it’s happened in ultraman. There’s another one of characters holding a sword with a super exaggerated perspective so the tip is close to camera and the character is farther away. Then there’s the infamous “crazy” shot, where you do a kind of fish eye lens close up to the character’s face.
Certainly, if you wanted to get more general and all-encompassing, you could take every form of shot reverse-shot used in a conversation as a pretty common example, though that one arises more out of necessity than anything else, I think. The coen brothers and occasionally wes anderson are a good example of how to make that actually be interesting, I suppose. I definitely think I’ve seen the “staring out the window” shot more than once, usually on a bus, since that’s a pretty good opportunity to use it, as the protagonist isn’t driving, and that’s an example that’s little more specific than just shot reverse-shot.
I dunno, I kinda wonder what are some other good examples of shots like that. Shots not iconic or specific enough to entail a clear reference to something, but shots that are specific enough that they don’t arise solely out of necessity, but arise out of a need to illustrate a common cinematic point. Shots that exist as shorthand, basically. I think it’s probably in those shots that we’d very clearly see “cinema”, as an artform, as a language that communicates things to the audience. Any shots like that come to mind?
There are many “visual tropes” like this. When I am watching anime with friends, we like to call them out. We even made a bingo at one time for re-occuring tropes.
There’s another one of characters holding a sword with a super exaggerated perspective so the tip is close to camera and the character is farther away
That’s sunrise stance
some others are
- gainax stance
- SHAFT necksnap
- jojo pose
There is also a big list at tvtropes (not all anime though) https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StockPoses
I also remember yutapon cubes popping up, too, as a visual trope. I dunno if you could really classify “sakuga”, as like, a trope, either, or if that’s more of a kind of, stylistic necessity and approach intrinsic to anime, much like the shot, reverse-shot is, but yeah.
NOPE has an Akira bike slide homage scene.
There are supercuts of bike slide homages on youtube
Yes, it is Black Swan cosplaying as Taxi Driver
The plot is even closer to The King of Comedy.
So you’re saying I should watch Black Swan?
You should. Great movie. Don’t let the ballet-centered plot fool you. It’s a fucked up Aronovsky movie after all so things get crazy.
It’s so entertaining as a young man, highly recommended.
No wait, that actually tracks stupidly well. What the hell?
Hollywood just recycles plots. Nothing original. You showed me how this film was terrible. I had no idea.
They actually don’t have the same plot, they just have some similarly laid out shots.
I was making a joke but people didn’t get it. I’d never flip my position on a good film over some shit on the internet like this.
The phrase “there is nothing new under the sun” doesn’t mean there’s no originality left in the world. It means all stories resonate because of the human condition. Remixing the tropes is entirely the point of storytelling. The tropes are the substrate and how our brain likes patterns, not the patterns themselves. Enjoy what you enjoy and not what you’re told.
It’s from a passage in the bible (Ecclesiastes 1:9) and the passage is a rant about the futility of life. The phrase, in Latin, is “nihil sub sole novum”, so I’m pretty sure that’s where the word nihilism comes from.
That’s both fascinating, sad, and ironic etymology. My point still stands, I just now realize it’s also just a reframing against the original edge lord trend. There really isn’t anything new under the sun haha.
I love how the Bible compliers had to alter the ending to change the meaning completely. They couldn’t just let the emo-like ramblings go without comment.
No one reads that sentence in context. Here is the next sentence
10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
Which is simply not true no matter how you look at it. Every idea still had someone think of it first and all but a tiny fraction of our technology is pretty freaken new. The whole poem is just a whiny rant by a person with an insufferable large ego.
my team
Everything is a remix. Most creative work inherit ideas from other work. Sometimes it’s intentional. Other times it’s unintentional. Almost no creative work is purely original.
Dude’s been remixing his own “Everything is a Remix” videos.
We are all standing on shoulders of giants. Things are constantly upgraded, rarely invented. But Satoshi was a very influential force in animation industry. Everything he did was visually staggering and confusing at the same time. His editing influenced so many other works it’s hard to count.
