I just don’t see the draw of immutable distros for non power users.

With traditional ubuntu/mint/fedora you have 15+ years of forum posts, tutorials, and community wisdom to help you out if you get stuck. You probably wont need to, but it’s nice to be able to just google something and get a dozen good answers. If you want to use containerized apps you also have that option.

Also depending on your taste in gaming, you might need access to stuff outside of steam/lutris/heroic/flathub. In those cases getting your game working could be a bit of a hassle compared to a traditional distro.

I totally see how immutability can be a draw for tinkerers and developers, but for regular users it’s solving a problem that doesn’t really exist, or is pretty rare if it does.

I also think there is something to say for picking a distro that’s been around a long while. Hopefully Bazzite is still around in 10 years. I feel very confident Ubuntu/Mint/Fedora/Pop! still will be.

That said, I’m glad to hear you and your friend are happy with Bazzite. It seems like a really good option if you only play games from steam/heroic/lutris/flathub. A best of both worlds between a PC and a gaming console.

make the most use of the hardware

All distros should do this equally well, and better than Windows

let me play the most games

All distros will be more or less the same. Games generally work or they dont. Check ProtonDB to see which games work and how well.

easiest to use

lowest maintenance possible

This is how distros actually differ.

Some common suggestions:

Ubuntu LTS:

• Upgrade your OS every 2 years
• Proprietary drivers are there if you need them (Nvidia is the only GPU that needs them)
• GNOME shell environment is very beautiful and fast, but very different from Windows

Kubuntu LTS:

• Upgrade your OS every 2 years
• Proprietary drivers are there if you need them (Nvidia is the only GPU that needs them)
• KDE Plasma Desktop is like all the best parts of windows 95/xp/7/10/11 + os9/OSX/macOS all combined and made super customizeable

Ubuntu/Kubuntu current:

• Upgrade your OS every 6 months
• Newer software than LTS
• Otherwise same as LTS

Linux Mint:

• Upgrade your OS every 2 years
• Proprietary drivers are there if you need them (Nvidia is the only GPU that needs them)
• Cinnamon Desktop is a better looking and faster implementation of a Windows 7 style desktop

Fedora

• Upgrade your OS every 9 months (or else)
• Proprietary codecs need to be added after install to play some video and music streams in your browser. It’s like 3 commands copy/pasted into the terminal
• Proprietary drivers are there if you need them (Nvidia is the only GPU that needs them)
• Choice of several desktop environments (Fedora spins)

Pop!_OS

• Fun to spell
• Upgrade your OS every 2 years
• Proprietary drivers are there if you need them (Nvidia is the only GPU that needs them)
• Pop_shell makes you feel like a hacker from the future, but is very unlike Windows

I do not reccomend Bazzite, Kali, Arch, Manjaro, Garuda, Debian, or Slackware. They are all great distros for specific use-cases, but they are all signficantly more work to configure than the suggestions i’ve outlined, and some are also more work to maintain.

I haven’t tried Nobara so i cant recommend it, but from the outside it looks fine for a gaming desktop.

Not the 12 afaik

I’ve mainly used an iPhone 13 and a Pixel 7 pro for comparison, but both have consistently worse cameras than the 6T.

I mostly take close-up photos of plants for iNaturalist, and with both the iPhone and the Pixel i have a very hard time getting it to focus on the right spot long enough to get a good photo. The 6T is much better at maintaining the correct focus IME than either newer phone

My 6t was the best Android i ever had. I still havent found a smartphone with a better camera than that one (including modern iPhones and Pixels).

Too bad about the Oppo merger ruining a lot of what made Oneplus good. The lack of support for loading alternative roms was the final straw for me. I dont want to be chained to the very short device lifespan the manufacturer supports.

Sorry to be off-topic but I’m curious:

How/why do people use proton-ge?

Are you using it standalone? Through Lutris or Steam? Something else?

What are the situations you’d need it over vanilla proton? Do you keep both vanilla and ge installed?

Also, do improvements generally get added to vanilla, or is ge an increasingly-divergent fork?

I’ve been gaming primarily on Linux for over a decade and since it’s been an option I’ve used proton on steam extensively, but I’ve never tried ge

I built a backup server out of my old desktop, running Ubuntu and ZFS

I have a dataset for each of my computers and i back them up to the corresponding datasets in the zfs pool on the server semi-regularly. The zfs pool has enough disks for some redundancy, so i can handle occasional drive failures. My other computers run arbitrary filesystems (ext4, btrfs, rarely ntfs)

the only problem with my current setup is that if there is file degradation on my workstation that i dont notice, it might get backed up to the server by mistake. then a degraded file might overwrite a non-degraded backup. to avoid this, i generally dont overwrite files when i backup. since 90% of my data is pictures, it’s not a big deal since they dont change

Someday i’d like to set up proxmox and virtualize everything, and i’d also like to set up something offsite i could zfs-send to as a second backup

i never liked the inconsistent window management though.

On 8, (i dont remember for 8.1) there were some apps and menus that forced “tablet mode” and could only be interacted with in fullscreen. Other applications would open in what looked like tablet mode by default but you could break them out into desktop mode, after which they behaved normally.

Personally, I think you are correct, but the person you replied to might also be correct. One likely amplified the other.

“Green Is My Pepper”

https://github.com/torvoltos/gimp

That sounds like another good solution!

Re: Discord

You can edit a text file to get it to stop checking for updates. IDK if this is viable on Debian but on Fedora it was never more than 1 update behind so I never had an issue in years

Hardware support is also two-sided.

For example: game controllers.

On Linux, any first-party Switch, Playstation, or Xbox controller works out of the box. Most 3rd party controllers also work out of the box. Even Wii remotes work once paired over bluetooth (and the pointing works but takes some setup).

On windows, xbox controllers work out of the box, except for very old ones which require a driver. 3rd party pc controllers will tend to work out of the box (or sometimes with a driver), but wired Switch and Playstation controllers need hacky workarounds to work or to get full functionality. Wireless controllers can often be paired with bluetooth, but I’ve had hit and miss luck with windows and first party Sony/Nintendo controllers

Don’t use an immutable distro like endless or silverblue. It’s a whole new paradigm to learn (in addition to learning Linux basics). You should get your feet wet with something more user-friendly first.

My big recommendation is Ubuntu. Normal ubuntu. Not one of the flavors or derivatives. It’s got everything you need, plus very easy to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. Try to avoid using the command line when following guides online, there is nothing on Ubuntu you actually need it for and the graphical tools are very good.

Don’t listen to the complaining about snaps. You won’t notice them, they won’t affect you negatively, they are designed to just set and forget. The complaints come from a highly particular and technical subset of the Linux community.

If you really don’t like the look of Ubuntu, then I’d second all the recommendations for Mint. Those two distros have the most number of non-technical users in their communities because they are both very user-friendly and well-tested. I’d recommend against trying anything else until you’ve gotten comfortable with Ubuntu or Mint.

When I commented it was a link to a random github comment that had nothing to do with the subject. I guess they fixed it and removed the second link between my comment and yours

There are quite a few niche window managers and desktop environments that it’d be a shame to loose. I’m quite fond of Windowmaker (and curious about Afterstep), Trinity DE, and NSCDE for example, and I’m not aware of Wayland plans for any of them.

Looking Glass is apparently broken on GNOME + Wayland in this exact way.

Ideally there would be a bare minimum server side decoration for Wayland apps (like Looking Glass) that don’t provide any CSD. Hopefully that’s on the horizon if it’s not what’s being discussed here.

That first link doesn’t have anything like you describe

Couldn’t finish it: too much whining, not enough substance.

I haven’t tried hyprland yet but if this is the guy developing it than maybe I’m good.

Cosmic seems promising. Best of luck to system76, happy to see an alternative opinionated desktop getting some momentum.

Thanks for the tip!