- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
Hamas has proposed a ceasefire plan that would quiet the guns in Gaza for four-and-a-half months, during which all hostages would go free, Israel would withdraw its troops from the Gaza Strip and an agreement would be reached on an end to the war.
There was no immediate public response from Israel, which has said it will not pull its troops out of Gaza until Hamas is wiped out.
The Hamas counterproposal envisages three phases of a truce, lasting 45 days each. Militants would exchange remaining Israeli hostages captured on Oct. 7 for Palestinian prisoners. The reconstruction of Gaza would begin, Israeli forces would withdraw completely, and bodies and remains would be exchanged.
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken arrived overnight in Israel after meeting the leaders of mediators Qatar and Egypt.
A source close to the negotiations said the Hamas counterproposal did not require a guarantee of a permanent ceasefire at the outset, but an end to the war would have to be agreed during the truce before the final hostages were freed.
They want to stay in power, which was rejected before and will be again.
Yes it will be rejected for spurious reasons because Israel wants to depopulate Gaza of Palestinians. It’s unfinished business from the 1948 Nakba
It’ll be rejected because Isreal doesn’t want to live next to people that want to rape and murder them.
I think people are generally nicer to you if you don’t oppress them for decades and destroy their homes but hey what do I know
I’ve been talking to an Israeli girl for the last few months… Interesting to see things from their perspective. Ya know, if I had to hide in shelters from rocket attacks almost everyday, witnessing a stabbing that happened right next to a date I was having, etc, I’d probably be pretty fucking jaded as well.
The recent pulling of UNWRA funding was pretty telling imo :/ what are you supposed to do as a state when you have a bunch of kids being radicalized by billionaires living in Qatar to kill Jews n that it would be an honorable death doing so…
This same girl was thankful for the illegal Israeli settlers in the west bank because they act as a buffer to keep the Israeli center safe as they pull ire to them vs where she lives. I know it is a talking point, but I’d be curious to hear y’all’s answer on why the Egyptian border looks the way it does vs the Israeli one with Gaza.
Talking to this gal initially, I viewed it as trying to understand the perspective of a true believing Nazi German who happened to be ludicrously hot. The saying of “when you start into the abyss for too long, the abyss stares back” is too true >_< she calls the Palestinians rats quite frequently. I’m sad to say that hearing about her life, I’ve come to understand why she thinks the way she does. Even if I heavily disagree with a lot of her opinions and her fact checking.
Just yesterday I was talking to her about the tankboi killing those journalists in Lebanon. Her knee jerk reaction was that it was lies. Had to coax out of her which foreign media source she trusted based off what she had seen… It was fucking fox (of course). So I linked her a fox article about it, and it was quite entertaining feeling the gears turn.
That’s hilariously quaint next to life as a Palestinian. Hell, a stabbing? That’s quaint next to life in the hood of the USA. Maybe ask her to consider the Palestinian perspective next. They lost their land and haven’t been able to return. 78% of their water is bad. They can’t control their borders, imports, or exports. They can be held for months without trial or charge. The noise is so bad from the buzz of drones they can’t sleep. Israel restricts their calories to the bare minimum (calls it “putting them on a diet”). They raid their areas occasionally to kill some people and take more prisoners (call it “mowing the grass”). They bomb their hospitals, apartment buildings, refugee camps, and other civilian infrastructure. They get their trees and agriculture pulled by Israeli settlers who get defended by troops. Unemployment is rampant. Israel controls their electricity, which doesn’t work multiple times a day, their trash, and all other parts of their infrastructure. All they have is unguided rockets that occasionally kill their own, while Israel has a state of the art rocket defense system that prevents almost all of their deaths, jets, bombs, helicopters, and always the latest in military gear and tech. The Palestinians are maimed en masse during peaceful protests like the Great March of Return. The list goes on and on.
The Nazi comparison is right. Imagine some Nazi saying they’re thankful the government is moving the Jews away from them by putting them on these trains. It’s more of a buffer zone from the scary Jewish ghettos. They bring up the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, and how they saw people die from the scary Jews.
That’s basically what she was saying. There’s no concern for the citizens at all, and no realization that the “scary” situation is completely of their own making due to their own occupation and blockade of civilians, who will then rightly get angrier and angrier as time passes without a solution allowing their own sovereignty.
M8, you’re saying these things as if I’m not aware of the hypocrisy. Asking her why she disliked Netanyahu, and then her telling me he isn’t extreme ENOUGH because he failed to protect them, yeahhhh. Then on being pressed for examples of historical leaders she thinks the leaders of Israel should emulate today, she sent me a link to one of the leaders of the Zionist movement before Israels founding who was… You guessed it… pretty terrorist-y in their behavior. The irony was not apparent to her, and the cognitive dissonance was palpable.
Asking her why I as a foreign national should give a flying fuck about Israeli hostages (she mentions them so much) compared to say Ukraine, she said I wouldn’t get it as I’m not Israeli (tribalism much?), and that the hostages are going through so much suffering. I sent her a before and after of a Ukrainian pow from Mauripol… Still didn’t care. Initially, I thought she was working for the IDF doing psyops, noooooope. She genuinely believes her governments propaganda and thinks the worlds media apparatus is just, lying all the time about what’s happening.
Haha sorry, hope I didn’t come off as angry at you. It’s just people like that make me angry and then I spout off. That was more to vent and I guess for other people who may agree with her.
There is a lot to be angry over. A lot of her logic reminds me of a friend of mine who id known for 7 years who joined the navy recently. We had a falling out for a year, and when I started talking to him again, he had become pro life and “the civil war wasn’t about slavery” sort of shit. THOSE “debates” kept me up at night for months thinking about them afterwards @_@ though, he shut the fuck up real quick about the civil war when I started linking Smithsonian articles about the Confederate declarations of Independence or w/e…
Specifically, WHY they were seceding. Then he just pivoted to abortion… Id murder a trillion clumps of cells in the womb to save or make better the life of one actual god damn human being :/
People aren’t cartoon villains. There is always a twisted logic behind those who advocate for ethnic cleansing. It may or may not be that Israel would be better off killing or driving out all Palestinians (at least in a vacuum) but that does not change that the rest of the world should not tolerate it.
I don’t think people understand what it’s like from an Israeli perspective. They place all the blame on Israel. Not saying Israel is innocent, they aren’t, but between the two sides, Israel is the reactionary party.
I have less concerns we could turn Israel pacifist.
Hamas will never be peaceful. It’s up to Gaza’s people to change that and reject the violent poking of Israel.
I mean… what kicked this off this time? Hamas committing horrific acts.
I’m pretty sure Israel doing something to the Al Aqsa mosque kicked it up this time.
Yes, I’m sure that justifies killing and kidnapping over 1,000 people.
Nothing justifies it, but if you want to know why it happened you’re going to have to look before October 7th. Decades and decades before it even. And you’ll have to be honest about all the things Israel has done, all the people they’ve killed (way more than 1,000 btw), and all the land they’ve taken. And that they continued to do so recently, even before October 7th.
What do you mean this time? It’s not like Israel stopped killing people.
This time meaning the widespread military action.
Stop blaming Israel only. Blame them both.
I’m sorry is abducting thousands of people from a foreign country and holding them without trial; bombing that country repeatedly; and holding it under blockade not widespread military action? Why does Israel constantly get a pass but the second Palestinians do something it’s a cause for a “new” war?
The old war never ended. Israel has never stopped stealing land with the backing of the IDF.
Nicer? You mean not murdering and raping is your idea of being nice?
I would consider not murdering and raping to be nicer than murdering and raping, yes. Do you not?
I’d consider it the very least you could do,
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Didn’t imagine you would take my wording so literally
It’s the difference between being civilized and uncivilized to anyone with a straight moral compass
It was a sarcastic wording. It really doesn’t have any serious meaning but I would point out that it was literally accurate. Not raping someone is “nicer” than raping someone.
If you don’t want to read the obvious meaning and instead take everything super seriously then that’s on you. This is why online conversations become insufferable.
I take literal meaning, because it a literal medium.
Your moral compass is broken, you can’t see that tho so good luck
I guess it must have worked for you before
I’m sure the Palestinians don’t want to live next to people that want to do, and have done, the same and much more to them.
It will be rejected because Israel justifiably does not want Hamas to exist.
Israel will also use this to unjustifiably reject it to proceed with a genocide on civilians not affiliated with Hamas.
It will be rejected because Israel
justifiablydoes not wantHamasPalestine to exist.Israel had been killing people, occupying territory, and illegally expanding settlements since long before fore Hamas was a thing. If they didn’t want Hamas to exist next to them, they shouldn’t have been doing all that stuff before.
Israel doesn’t want Hamas to exist? If that’s so, why did they themselves fund Hamas? Why did they purposefully allow billions of dollars propping up the Hamas government?
@RapidCreek set you up for that gotcha and you bit.
It’s amazing how fast some turn to whatabout on this issue. It is never OK to commit an act of terrorism. Raping, murdering, taking hostages is never a workable solution to any problem. Bin Laden. justified 9/11 in the same way.
It’s not whataboutism to point out the fact that barbaric acts have been going both ways for a long fucking time.
Who is even arguing this?
No one. This is what propagandists do. They change the conversation until you get frustrated and quit.
And with 9/11 a lot of people have talked of blowback. Are you saying the same can be said about Israel?
No, I’m saying that terrisum on civilians can not be justified in a civilized world.
Hamas is evil, yes, but ultimately Israel isn’t attacking Hamas. It’s attacking Palestinians indiscriminately and hoping afterward that some of them might’ve been associated with Hamas. People aren’t calling for a ceasefire because they like Hamas, they’re calling for it because Hamas has nothing to do with Israel’s attack on Palestine besides being a convenient scapegoat.
Isreal is attacking because of 10/7.
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Actually the US didn’t have anything to do with bin Laden in Afghanistan. Clinton sent 36 tomahawk missles at bin Laden when he warned the US.
The CIA is an American agency that trained and funded Al Qaeda in the 1970s to fight with the Mujahideen against Soviet troops during the Soviet/Afghani war. The Bin Ladens are a ridiculously wealthy family with connections to both the Saudi and American governments. The US had EVERYTHING to do with the Bin Ladens in Afghanistan.
Al Quedia came to Afghanistan at the end of the war with Russia. The Taliban didn’t like them, but bin Laden had money. The US did supply the Mujahideen but not al Qaeda.
I’m pretty sure the gazans don’t want to live near people who rape and murder them
I think we know enough about Israeli government policy to know that’s not what’s going on. They’re the ones who have been propping up Hamas, here.
Each and every one of your future comments regarding Israel and Palestine will not be taken seriously.
Anyone whos been following this issue on Lemmy knows that dudes name, and not for good reasons. I guess every village needs an idiot.
Bwhahahaha. That’s quite a meaningless threat.
Are you actually 12?
He’s been doing this on Lemmy since the start of the Israeli attack. Probably some bored kid in his mom’s basement thinking it’s cool to be radical.
A little of Column A, a little of Column B…
(Want to clearly point out that innocent Palestinians are the ones being slaughtered; not Hamas terrorists.)
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Denial is the first refuge for weak arguments
The Intercept just dropped a new article saying there is no evidence for rapes. Where is your evidence?
I really stay away from that rag. Clickbait for people like you, I know.