How am I ever going to carry a couch on my bicycle? Haha, silly me. I don’t carry couches.
(Or I’d just spend a whooping 80 euros to rent a van for a few hours)
There are many reasons: marketing propaganda, sexism, insecurity, politics, and selfishness. Americans are seemingly very susceptible to propaganda and marketing has convinced people that the type of products and brands we consume define who we are.
Sexusm. They have tricked us into believing that small cars are feminine and that huge trucks are for manly, rugged, outdoorsy types.
Insecurity. Even if someone realizes that judging people based on what vehicle they drive is stupid, lots of people are very insecure and are worried other people will judge them for driving a small car.
Politics. Leftists advocated for smaller cars because they care about urbanism, pedestrian fatalities, and the environment. In response, conservatives have turned large tank sized vehicles in a conservative political statement.
Selfishness. Engineering can only do so much to cheap physics so bigger / heavier vehicles are a little safer for the passengers of the larger vehicle when crashing into smaller cars but at the cost of the safety of the smaller car. It is far from a 1 to 1 exchange, large vehicles greatly increase the traffic fatality rates, but large pickup owners don’t give a shit about the safety of others. They have no love for their fellow countrymen which means they have no love for their country.
I agree with you and I would like to add a couple points:
Safety: a lot of people buy big vehicles to feel like they have a chance of surviving a crash with another big vehicle. Not saying this is good, but it is a thing that happens and it feeds the vicious cycle.
Regulation: I know these types of threads tend to lean into “regulation good” but let’s not forget that regulation caused (or a big part of it) this whole mess in the first place. Actually a couple of them: the chicken tax is a big one (a 25% tariff on imported light trucks), and the other one is the way the minimum fuel mileage requirements are calculated. Basically, you can break the math of the EPA fuel mileage requirement by making the vehicle longer. Unfortunately this looks aesthetically stupid, so it makes the proportions correct they have to be bigger in every other direction too. This mileage math is effectively what killed the mini trucks that used to be so popular like the S10, and smaller versions of the Tacoma and Ranger.
I don’t remember exactly but it’s something to do with new safety and emissions fuel efficiency regulations brought about in the 90s(?) that would fine manufacturers who didn’t meet the new standards. “Light trucks” such as the F150 were exempt so manufacturers started pushing those hard as the fashionable choice.
Fast forward 30 years, the regulations haven’t changed, and here we are. There’s a good video about it somewhere…
There is a lot of ego to it as well. You aren’t a “real man” if you don’t drive a truck. People assume they see a truck, thats a hard working real man right there, even if it is just some guy driving to his desk job that doesn’t need 500+ hp and 4000lbs towing capacity. I can’t remember which company but a truck manufactuer surveyed people with pictures of men next to cars or trucks and the truck scored higher in things like resourcefulness, trust, reliability. And when the exact same guy is pictured next to cars, he scored lower in the same categories. Even some women get trapped in this ego thinking they are tough with stickers like “silly boys, trucks are for girls”. Trucks aren’t for a specific gender, they are for hauling bulky loads or towing. .
Which is funny because if you need an accessory of some sort to establish your identity, that feels less real to me than someone who is comfortable with themselves without any accessories.
I really hate how many people see insecurity and think, “that’s what strength looks like!”
Since the 1950’s, particularly in rural america, it’s been common for a family to have 1 truck and 1 car. Cars have become less desirable in these areas over time. Everyone wants a truck.
There’s more to it in rural areas like where i live. Our roads suck. It rains a lot. The closest town is an hr away. I use my truck every day to haul, tow, and get to where i need to be.
Couple that with i’m a big guy. And i’m not young. Getting in and out of an average car is a challenge. Riding in an average car for more than a short time is torture.
I never asked for trucks to get huge. I never asked for 400+ hp. I would gladly trade these big, tall trucks for trucks the size they were in the 80’s with enough power to pull my trailer and get decent economy. But for some reason that’s not an option.
I just bought a new Ram with the base 3.0 turbo. It’s very impressive. We took a 1k mile trip and averaged 22mpg. That’s impressive as well. But i remember an Isuzu Pup diesel in the 80’s getting 38mpg. It was slow. It smelled like diesel. But it ran for 300k miles needing nothing but a clutch. There were some futile attempts recently at putting diesels back in 1/2 ton trucks, but come on. Toe nail clippings for engines that had zero reliability across the board.
I guess for me, the summary is I have to have a truck. I can’t afford 2 vehicles. There are many people in this country in the same situation. I do think there’s a market for economical trucks over these modern monsters but until manufacturers start listening, we’re stuck with what we have.
On the other hand, all vehicles are doing better with their safety systems. From a pedestrian perspective, that is going to be a bigger help than anything. It doesn’t matter what a person is driving if they are not paying attention.
I’m a compact sedan kind of guy, but man a truck would be nice during particularly snowy days trying to get where I’m going before it gets too much that the car gets stuck.
Get snow tires. It makes a HUGE difference. There have been so many times that a large pickup was spinning out on a hill of ice while my tiny compact car went past them.
It’s the ultimate result of Society being nothing more than Consumer Society: weak minded individuals after a lifetime of being made to feel inadequate by Adverts are led by Adverts into feeling (all car adverts nowadays use techniques from Psychology to manipulate people at a subconscious level, not logic to convince them, so the push to buy comes via what people feel about certain products) that an oversized car will make them look important and irresistible to the opposite sex.
In places were people feel that Society (the part that exists beyond just the Consumer bit) frowns on people running around with big trucks it’s harder for Adverts to induce such feelings.
Mind you, living in the Europ I’m pretty happy that at this point in time the impression that people here have of America is pretty low, so people don’t have as much the “I want to be like an American” effect that would otherwise push “American practices” (what people think they are from what they see on TV) here.
Mind you, living in the Europ I’m pretty happy that at this point in time the impression that people here have of America is pretty low, so people don’t have as much the “I want to be like an American” effect that would otherwise push “American practices” (what people think they are from what they see on TV) here.
For now. Right wing politicians are working tirelessly to make Europe like the US and every election they win will slowly ratchet Europe close to becoming a brain washed consumerist society
Well, the trend in the last decade or two has been a more or less continuous decrease in people’s opinion of America and everything American, in Europe.
That’s actually reflected in Europe’s Far-Right also: compared to the US version it’s way less concerned with Religion, way less concerned with Homosexuality and Transsexuality, way less prone to things like anti-vacination and anti-mask, and so on.
I mean, I’ve see a couple of times the local far right rabble rousers trying to ape American far right talking points and it just fell flat on their audience.
I mean, absolutely the local far right wants to be as successful as that in the US and they do definitely share the whole Immigration Hate, whilst beyond that the rest of the American far right obcessions don’t tend to go down well in European societies (at least not in the countries I lived in: for example the leader of the first successful far right party in The Netherlands was very openly gay, something unthinkable in the US) and since people don’t want to be more like Americans anymore (nowadays, it’s probably quite the contrary) I don’t quite see how those very American Far-Right ideas will find more acceptance in Europe in the future.
Honestly, I think station was wagons could make a big come back if they designed them right. Make them super practical and utilitarian, I could see younger generations going for them instead of SUVs.
Traditional station wagons just can’t compete. Being classified as a car instead of a light truck means they have to adhere to stricter fuel economy and safety standards. They end up costing more, and ultimately that’s what killed them.
With that said, the newer crop of low-roofed crossovers are essentially station wagons now, but they are still truck-like enough with their big tires and jacked up suspensions to classify as light trucks.
I am probably going to break down and get truck again. Most uses people give are bs. A tarp and car will let you haul 90% of what you want. Chicken, dog, cat, pig feed. Car is fine. All of those animals too (though 300 lb pot belly pushes the limits).
If you stick it out the back of the trunk you can haul long lumber. You can load a surprising amount of rocks and concrete too.
You are probably loading and unloading appliances that often. Or furniture.
If it wasn’t for the travel trailer I would suffer through it, but its the straw that broke the cammals back. Renting is just such a pain in the dick too. I would rather have a piece of junk desiel that I am tinkering with the schedule a day to pick up a truck to race around trying to use it before I run out time.
If I need to clear brush. I just want to go do it. If I need rocks I just to get a load. Friend or family moving I can just bring the truck.
Don’t get me wrong I hate a lot of the truck out there. I don’t need a new house worth of truck to move junk around.
I just want a god damn little single cab S10 style truck with a full size bed. I don’t need passenger space, I don’t need crazy ground clearance, I don’t need huge tires. I need room for furniture and lumber that my 5’3 ass can get in and out of without having to climb. Bonus points if it’s electric. And no a Maverick is not just as good.
My literal dream. I’ve actually been looking at Edison Motors retrofit kit for hybrid diesel electric to try and revive a junker rather then selling two kidneys for the down payment on a truck I couldn’t afford to get scratched.
Farmers owning a truck makes sense (although I hate how blocky and dangerous the hoods are), but what about all the tech bros and finance bros who drive giant pickups? I swear half of the men who work white collar jobs and live in the suburbs drive giant pickups and SUVs these days
Why are trucks so popular in the us? What do you guys need to often put in the back?
Nothing. But you never know…
Meanwhile in Europe:
How am I ever going to carry a couch on my bicycle? Haha, silly me. I don’t carry couches. (Or I’d just spend a whooping 80 euros to rent a van for a few hours)
it’s not hard
There are many reasons: marketing propaganda, sexism, insecurity, politics, and selfishness. Americans are seemingly very susceptible to propaganda and marketing has convinced people that the type of products and brands we consume define who we are.
Sexusm. They have tricked us into believing that small cars are feminine and that huge trucks are for manly, rugged, outdoorsy types.
Insecurity. Even if someone realizes that judging people based on what vehicle they drive is stupid, lots of people are very insecure and are worried other people will judge them for driving a small car.
Politics. Leftists advocated for smaller cars because they care about urbanism, pedestrian fatalities, and the environment. In response, conservatives have turned large tank sized vehicles in a conservative political statement.
Selfishness. Engineering can only do so much to cheap physics so bigger / heavier vehicles are a little safer for the passengers of the larger vehicle when crashing into smaller cars but at the cost of the safety of the smaller car. It is far from a 1 to 1 exchange, large vehicles greatly increase the traffic fatality rates, but large pickup owners don’t give a shit about the safety of others. They have no love for their fellow countrymen which means they have no love for their country.
I agree with you and I would like to add a couple points:
Safety: a lot of people buy big vehicles to feel like they have a chance of surviving a crash with another big vehicle. Not saying this is good, but it is a thing that happens and it feeds the vicious cycle.
Regulation: I know these types of threads tend to lean into “regulation good” but let’s not forget that regulation caused (or a big part of it) this whole mess in the first place. Actually a couple of them: the chicken tax is a big one (a 25% tariff on imported light trucks), and the other one is the way the minimum fuel mileage requirements are calculated. Basically, you can break the math of the EPA fuel mileage requirement by making the vehicle longer. Unfortunately this looks aesthetically stupid, so it makes the proportions correct they have to be bigger in every other direction too. This mileage math is effectively what killed the mini trucks that used to be so popular like the S10, and smaller versions of the Tacoma and Ranger.
I don’t remember exactly but it’s something to do with new
safety and emissionsfuel efficiency regulations brought about in the 90s(?) that would fine manufacturers who didn’t meet the new standards. “Light trucks” such as the F150 were exempt so manufacturers started pushing those hard as the fashionable choice.Fast forward 30 years, the regulations haven’t changed, and here we are. There’s a good video about it somewhere…
Yeah here we go: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo
Ah very interesting thanks!
There is a lot of ego to it as well. You aren’t a “real man” if you don’t drive a truck. People assume they see a truck, thats a hard working real man right there, even if it is just some guy driving to his desk job that doesn’t need 500+ hp and 4000lbs towing capacity. I can’t remember which company but a truck manufactuer surveyed people with pictures of men next to cars or trucks and the truck scored higher in things like resourcefulness, trust, reliability. And when the exact same guy is pictured next to cars, he scored lower in the same categories. Even some women get trapped in this ego thinking they are tough with stickers like “silly boys, trucks are for girls”. Trucks aren’t for a specific gender, they are for hauling bulky loads or towing. .
Which is funny because if you need an accessory of some sort to establish your identity, that feels less real to me than someone who is comfortable with themselves without any accessories.
I really hate how many people see insecurity and think, “that’s what strength looks like!”
Since the 1950’s, particularly in rural america, it’s been common for a family to have 1 truck and 1 car. Cars have become less desirable in these areas over time. Everyone wants a truck. There’s more to it in rural areas like where i live. Our roads suck. It rains a lot. The closest town is an hr away. I use my truck every day to haul, tow, and get to where i need to be. Couple that with i’m a big guy. And i’m not young. Getting in and out of an average car is a challenge. Riding in an average car for more than a short time is torture. I never asked for trucks to get huge. I never asked for 400+ hp. I would gladly trade these big, tall trucks for trucks the size they were in the 80’s with enough power to pull my trailer and get decent economy. But for some reason that’s not an option. I just bought a new Ram with the base 3.0 turbo. It’s very impressive. We took a 1k mile trip and averaged 22mpg. That’s impressive as well. But i remember an Isuzu Pup diesel in the 80’s getting 38mpg. It was slow. It smelled like diesel. But it ran for 300k miles needing nothing but a clutch. There were some futile attempts recently at putting diesels back in 1/2 ton trucks, but come on. Toe nail clippings for engines that had zero reliability across the board. I guess for me, the summary is I have to have a truck. I can’t afford 2 vehicles. There are many people in this country in the same situation. I do think there’s a market for economical trucks over these modern monsters but until manufacturers start listening, we’re stuck with what we have. On the other hand, all vehicles are doing better with their safety systems. From a pedestrian perspective, that is going to be a bigger help than anything. It doesn’t matter what a person is driving if they are not paying attention.
I’m a compact sedan kind of guy, but man a truck would be nice during particularly snowy days trying to get where I’m going before it gets too much that the car gets stuck.
Get snow tires. It makes a HUGE difference. There have been so many times that a large pickup was spinning out on a hill of ice while my tiny compact car went past them.
It’s the ultimate result of Society being nothing more than Consumer Society: weak minded individuals after a lifetime of being made to feel inadequate by Adverts are led by Adverts into feeling (all car adverts nowadays use techniques from Psychology to manipulate people at a subconscious level, not logic to convince them, so the push to buy comes via what people feel about certain products) that an oversized car will make them look important and irresistible to the opposite sex.
In places were people feel that Society (the part that exists beyond just the Consumer bit) frowns on people running around with big trucks it’s harder for Adverts to induce such feelings.
Mind you, living in the Europ I’m pretty happy that at this point in time the impression that people here have of America is pretty low, so people don’t have as much the “I want to be like an American” effect that would otherwise push “American practices” (what people think they are from what they see on TV) here.
For now. Right wing politicians are working tirelessly to make Europe like the US and every election they win will slowly ratchet Europe close to becoming a brain washed consumerist society
Well, the trend in the last decade or two has been a more or less continuous decrease in people’s opinion of America and everything American, in Europe.
That’s actually reflected in Europe’s Far-Right also: compared to the US version it’s way less concerned with Religion, way less concerned with Homosexuality and Transsexuality, way less prone to things like anti-vacination and anti-mask, and so on.
I mean, I’ve see a couple of times the local far right rabble rousers trying to ape American far right talking points and it just fell flat on their audience.
I mean, absolutely the local far right wants to be as successful as that in the US and they do definitely share the whole Immigration Hate, whilst beyond that the rest of the American far right obcessions don’t tend to go down well in European societies (at least not in the countries I lived in: for example the leader of the first successful far right party in The Netherlands was very openly gay, something unthinkable in the US) and since people don’t want to be more like Americans anymore (nowadays, it’s probably quite the contrary) I don’t quite see how those very American Far-Right ideas will find more acceptance in Europe in the future.
@Elkenders @return2ozma their egos
Honestly, I think station was wagons could make a big come back if they designed them right. Make them super practical and utilitarian, I could see younger generations going for them instead of SUVs.
Traditional station wagons just can’t compete. Being classified as a car instead of a light truck means they have to adhere to stricter fuel economy and safety standards. They end up costing more, and ultimately that’s what killed them.
With that said, the newer crop of low-roofed crossovers are essentially station wagons now, but they are still truck-like enough with their big tires and jacked up suspensions to classify as light trucks.
I am probably going to break down and get truck again. Most uses people give are bs. A tarp and car will let you haul 90% of what you want. Chicken, dog, cat, pig feed. Car is fine. All of those animals too (though 300 lb pot belly pushes the limits).
If you stick it out the back of the trunk you can haul long lumber. You can load a surprising amount of rocks and concrete too.
You are probably loading and unloading appliances that often. Or furniture.
If it wasn’t for the travel trailer I would suffer through it, but its the straw that broke the cammals back. Renting is just such a pain in the dick too. I would rather have a piece of junk desiel that I am tinkering with the schedule a day to pick up a truck to race around trying to use it before I run out time.
If I need to clear brush. I just want to go do it. If I need rocks I just to get a load. Friend or family moving I can just bring the truck.
Don’t get me wrong I hate a lot of the truck out there. I don’t need a new house worth of truck to move junk around.
I just want a god damn little single cab S10 style truck with a full size bed. I don’t need passenger space, I don’t need crazy ground clearance, I don’t need huge tires. I need room for furniture and lumber that my 5’3 ass can get in and out of without having to climb. Bonus points if it’s electric. And no a Maverick is not just as good.
My literal dream. I’ve actually been looking at Edison Motors retrofit kit for hybrid diesel electric to try and revive a junker rather then selling two kidneys for the down payment on a truck I couldn’t afford to get scratched.
Maybe the size of the country has an impact. Does the average person need to buy a lot of animal feed?
Its about a third of the people I know. Stuff like Chewy help but then we can’t buy it from the farmers co-op.
Farmers owning a truck makes sense (although I hate how blocky and dangerous the hoods are), but what about all the tech bros and finance bros who drive giant pickups? I swear half of the men who work white collar jobs and live in the suburbs drive giant pickups and SUVs these days
And they ruin the truck market because they are happy to shell out stupid money to park in the suburbs