Political persecution by Trump and widespread violence.
They would re-crown themselves as “the resistance” and spend another 4 years calling out Trump for policies that they also support but with a fig leaf. They would do basically nothing material, just as they have done for decades when out of the white house. They will demand that you bear witness to disaster and trauma but not actually organize against it, they would tell you to instead place all your faith for a resolution in their hands. Just give them four more years, bro. “At least we aren’t Republicans”.
This ignores so much that has been fought for and done by so many politicians who actually have a desire to make things better. It’s honestly disgraceful you’re that bitter you can’t see the good faith efforts that have been made.
The party or state and local dems who aren’t party insiders?
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So then you agree with what I said but just want to make an addition?
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What Democratic politicians organized actual resistance to Trump’s policies? Not just occasional votes or run-of-the-mill shuffling, but organizing? Mobilizing people to do continual work and the building and ossification participation in an organization directly taking actio?
That is antithetical to how the party operates. They always dismiss or coopt such things into NGOs with staffing paid by donors and they cease to be orgs with a political project and mobilization.
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Yeah that’s accurate. Especially the not organizing part, which is actually more important now because we long already knew what’s been happening around us. It’s the party with no drive but all noise.
Cool. What have you done?
I have organized for years for people’s causes and against capitalist oppressors. I’ve been beaten, shot at, and lied about for it.
How about you?
Sure you have, bud. Maybe you have been maced a few times, but there’s no chance you’ve organised shit-all in the process.
I’ve been around the same circles enough to know that.
You’ve been around in the same socialist circles enough to know that nobody organizes, nobody gets shot at, nobody gets beaten, and there are never coordinated campaigns to lie about you?
lmao, no you haven’t. You have never been in those circles. Maybe with some confused radlibs given your petty attempt to defend the capitalist Democratic party, but that is very generous of me.
Let me know if you have any other bad faith questions, liberal.
I’m still getting the feeling that Harris will win.
But if she doesn’t, I don’t think they’ll exist as a viable political party by 2028, and not because people will lose faith in them. I think Trump will weaponize as many aspects of the government as he possibly can against anyone and any group he sees as a threat or challenge to himself, and one of those groups is the Democratic Party. And I also think he’ll direct the more militant groups of his followers (3%ers, proud boys, etc) much more explicitly in the conduct of violence against his opponents - up to and including having direct contact with their leadership.
I’m not being hyperbolic. This is a playbook we’ve seen before. Harris losing would be roughly equivalent in many ways to the NSDAP (that would be the Nazis) rise to power in the early 1930s.
I think they’ll basically be a controlled opposition party. Having only one party control the entire government should be a red flag for most Republican voters. Keeping them at a consistent 20-30% of all offices is a good way to say, “Look, you have choice. Not our fault Democrats have unpopular policies and can’t muster a majority anymore.”
Yes, that’s another distinct possibility.
But as I see it, Trump et al will think it’s a super bigly power move if they can just destroy the Democratic Party outright, so they’ll probably try to do that anyways
I no longer think it is. Anyone that can look at what Trump did from 2017 through 2021, and what he’s saying that he will do if elected, and still vote for him, isn’t someone that cares about a single party dominating politics.
I mean we have two parties fundamentally representing similar donor interests, they swap controlled opposition roles which is more convincing than one party constantly being controlled opposition.
The US, and bourgeois democracies in general, have less political variation than one party socialist democracies. In China you have everyone from liberals (right wingers) to Maoists in government. In the US you basically only have liberals and scratched liberals.
A mild but noticeable shift to the right, even more than Biden -> Harris so no more Bernie, Walz or AOC, compromising on social policy (especially immigration, but also trans rights, guns etc).
Otherwise business as usual. If trump croaks and desantis/vance takes the reigns they might be competent enough to get enough of Project 2025 underway that by the next cycle the institutions of the country will be so eroded that Democrats will be reduced to permanent “opposition” status to maintain a sense of democracy rather than any real democracy,
it will not actually be possible to elect them, a few cycles and they will either dissolve or implode, then is replaced with a GOP faction.
If it makes Americans feel any better, the Roman Republic still survived as an Empire for centuries long after it’s military dictatorship carousel of clowns and opportunists eroded the republic’s institutions and kept all that SPQR stuff just for aesthetics and a national identity
compromising on social policy (especially immigration . . . )
That compromise has already happened. Harris is currently campaigning on a hardline border policy and touting that she tried to get essentially Trump’s 2020 border policy through the legislature.
If the Dems lose, they will move right. If they win, they will move right. Without a strong leftist opposition (not just voice, but opposition), they will keep moving right term after term after term while touting superficial bullshit to try to please people who have a conscience but very little political education.
There was a thread just yesterday about why the Democrats haven’t done anything progressive in so long, and people were seriously touting Harris being black like that at all matters in the face of her being a cop, or like it’s actual policy and not just the incidental identity of their prospective President. I wrote a whole thing on it before deleting it because I just can’t stand to talk to people like that anymore.
I do not agree. Biden may not be a flashy big reform guy but in practice he is basically the most progressive president since FDR.
The idea that fascists might still be wearing America’s corpse long after it’s dead does not in fact make me feel any better. Honestly, I doubt they’ll be able to keep it together anywhere near that long, but it might last longer than I do, which is bad enough. Not that I much want to be around for the self-destruction, either.
Here’s to hoping that the Democrats can win and keep this country limping along until someone better comes around. At this point that’s the best hope this dumpster fire has left.
Didn’t mean to imply it was a good thing, but that you and your family and friends might at least be somewhat safe from immediate hardship of something as bad as the collapse of a nation-state
(especially immigration, but also trans rights, guns etc).
They should absolutely drop guns entirely, and focus on root causes of violence (…which are largely economic and related to the ‘war on drugs’). If Dems entirely dropped gun/feature/magazine bans as a policy point, and never brought it up again, they could peel away a lot of Republican voters. In much the same way, that there are a lot of women that are very conservative that would vote Republican if only Republicans dropped abortion/birth control/IVF/etc.
As an aside to this, Dems constant calls to ban guns actually increases firearm sales. Dropping it as a political point would decrease the overall number of arms sold each year. It would also slow down the guntubers grift of using 2A rights as a way to shift people farther to the right on social and economic issues.
Probably another century of nominating old white guys for president.
DNC probably won’t get more progressive for next round and will pull something to make them lose votes. Won’t be surprised of they go more right. Maybe drop anti gun laws? That would be a good move to get more GOP votes and the cost of diehard anti-gun people. I don’t know if that math’s. If there is a next round…
At this point, the DNC could be giving out guns and Republicans would call it a trap that they are only giving a single high capacity magazine. Honestly, after everything that has been known about Project 2025, Trump, Lindsay Graham, and everyone on the right, I don’t think there is anything that could ever change their vote.
I know you are right and it’s sad. Alternative timeline Pete campaigning in Texas “coming to give you more guns” would totally been called a trap by GOP.
Beto O’Rourke has been one of the biggest gifts the Dems could ever give Republicans. Even if Dems drop gun bans now–and they should!–it will take years of Dems being pro-2A to convince single-issue voters that it’s not a scam.
It really depends who votes for them. If progressives, responding to the Walz pick and $15/hr minimum wage vote in very large numbers, then the dem party will do more to try to maintain their support going into the future.
If the conservative never-Trumpers come out and vote in large numbers, the dems will try to maintain that support instead.
They’ll chase the votes, basically.
Those are good examples. Seems in line with the DNC. Which is in part why I became disillusioned by them.
They’ll die out because only old people are true democrats. The younger ones are progressive so I bet the party reforms to counter the yt trash MAGAs. Since the GOP died and now are attacking the country to Putins delight under the MAGA banner they obviously have to fight back. Which shouldn’t be too hard because a lot of the yt trash are moving back rural with all the land scams Trump endorses at his rallys.
A party realignment likely happens faster. It’s been a long time since the parties have had a real shake up and we are probably overdue anyway.
I think that Trump would make a real attempt to criminally prosecute Democratic leaders, as well as Republicans that won’t go along with him. Since the president now has immunity for ‘official acts’, he would have no real roadblocks for dealing with things in an extrajudicial way, and it’s unlikely that anyone that he appoints is going to make any attempt to slow him down; almost everyone that’s served in his prior administration has already said as much.
If he wins, I expect things to be very bad for much longer than his official, legal term of office. He’s going to do everything he can to eliminate the rule of law, and SCOTUS has already demonstrated that they can’t/won’t block him.
more trump assassination attempts! there’s a positive side to everything!
More implies failures. Enough and Dude is gonna pull a Putain and be kept in a bunker. That will break him emotionally. maybe there is a silver lining.
Those were all right-aligned hogs
Let them be joined by left-aligned hogs.
im not against fascists killing eachother
Hopefully learn to play by the same rules as the Republicans and stop being such fucking pussies. Republicans cheat, lie, steal, and pretend to be morally superior while the Democrats try to abide by rules which aren’t in the rulebook. I found this interview quite good where it’s brought up.
Democrats, go play dirty otherwise you’ll keep fucking losing.
Fuck no! If the Dems become as bad as the GOP that’s just losing by another name.
I encourage you to watch the interview I posted. TL;DW the Dems should achieve their goals (which are better than those of the Reps) by playing like the Reps. Again, that’s the short version of the video which doesn’t do it justice, so if you want to argue it, I encourage you again to watch the video.
They would lose any and all respect. They’re being seen as the party ‘Not Trump’ so being able to lose with this much momentum would be a severe blow to morale.
Worsening in Israel. Not the two faced AIPAC fueled support they have now, but fully empowered to destabilize the entire region and genocide with even more glee. Ghastly butchery on display, not as an attempt to shame the administration, but to boast.
Complete withdrawal of Ukranian aid. Naked support for Russian incursion wherever they see fit.
Pulling out of NATO as well as any other meaningful international consortiums.
Worsening relations with ally nations
No clue here. But if even 10% of his domestic threats are enacted, bad times.
EDIT: my rambling screed ignored the question, sorrey.
They will be the ‘enemy within’. And treated like leftists have been for a long time here. All without the street cred to back it up.
it’ll be delegalized obviously
I honestly don’t think it matters. I believe turnip will sweep in project 2025 plans, we already know the supreme court is fully in his bag. My personal belief is that if he’s elected, our contry is on course for a soviet style breakup.
My personal belief is that is he’s elected, our contry is on course for a soviet style breakup.
What do you mean by this? We already have austerity politics, and there isn’t a foreign superpower in control of most of our media apparatus.
right, I imagine the job will be finished. I mean, they always want a government so small as to drown it in a bathtub, but in reality they just want all the control. I just cannot imagine that turnip can hold togethether the coalition he’s trying to build and a populist agenda is unworkable in practice. So I think at least a north/south divide will happen, but we’re so fractured and fragmented that I could see additional pockets breaking off if that happens.
I do not have a detailed map for how it happens, I just think he’s polarizing enough, and looking to change enough that we will not have a recognizable country.
I sincerely hope that I am just overly paranoid and falling vicitm to a derangement syndrome but given how it went, how it ended, and expecially considering the rhetoric coming out of the campaign, I have little.
But the soviet union didnt dissolve from a civil war, there was a US sponsored presidential coup?
well, I didn’t say there would be a civil war. I can’t say I can forsee all the mechanics but as far as I’m concerned, there is a slow motion coup happening now. do you think for one second that they won’t try to do everything possible to rig things in their favor, do you think for one second that they are not already trying?
In the end, a populist agenda like he’s running, where he will say and promise anything to anyone, simply cannot be worked. his base isn’t even a majority but the stupid system we have will let minority rule. so, I simply do not believe enough americans will fall in line, his obstinate supporters aren’t capable enough of holding the system together. I wish I knew what the fate would be, I just don’t see a good one.
Again, I am 100% hoping that I’m full of shit, that I’m deranged and paranoid. I honestly hope this is a me problem.
In the end, a populist agenda like he’s running,
Trump just straight up isn’t a populist? Fascists are pseudo-populists at best. They don’t actually care about democracy or what the majority want, just like liberals (using marxist definition of liberal)
turnip is turnip, just because he doesn’t exactly display the hallmarks of a previous person, doesn’t mean he’s not also a thing. he’s populist because he’s running an empty campaign with no actual plans. there’s nothing behind any of the things he’s promising, he’s just promising them because he thinks it can get him elected.
I mean, he’s promised no income tax, tax breaks, no tax on tips, etc. none of it is backed by any policies, only, “trust me, it’s gonna be great”. when I talk populist, I mean specifically this sort of behavior, I don’t think for one second that he actually cares about enacting any of it short of doing things that will make people like him. I honestly believe that once the rubber meets the road, and he either does his mass deportations and the nation suddenly realizes why it’s a terrible idea or he doesn’t because it’s such a stupid idea and his mouthbreathing supporters turn on him. repeat ad nauseam for any of the other insane things that he’s promising.
the same argument can be made that he’s not a fascist, he’s not doing exactly the same things as previous fascist regimes right?
so we may be getting hung up on semantics here, I’m not always the best with smart brain words.
