This is getting old and isn’t effective when the only other option according to the US voting system is trump.
Harris is Palestines best bet at continued existence. Sorry if that hurts your feelings or something…
“Hold your nose and vote genocide”.
Rather than rewarding genociders, might I suggest opposing them? I was told this was the worst crime, but apparently it isn’t as bad as not voting for it.
If you’d like to do electoral math, being an automatic lever pull means you have no leverage. And if your conception of electoralism is to cheerlead and support top-down dictates, you’re actively disempowering yourself.
But personally, I don’t think it should require game theory to not vote for any pro-genocide candidate. Demand better or be complicit. I certainly won’t forget this depravity.
Better just to let democracy burn down. Can’t save one nation so let ours fall and have no chance to right the ship. Yeah that makes sense.
What democracy? Isn’t your argument that you have no choice but to genocide? Isn’t your argument that you can never use your vote as leverage to demand what you want?
The strategy portion of what I listed is how you could attempt to be democratic rather than genocide candidate cheerleaders.
Harris is Palestines best bet at continued existence.
She has promised to never cease sending bombs to Israel for it to “defend itself.”
Do you think Trump would cease sending bombs?
Nope, I believe that, like Harris, he will continue to uphold bipartisan US foreign policy, and maintain the current flow of bombs to Israel.
Painting Harris as “Palestine’s best hope for continued existence” is monstrous and downplays her already active support for continuing the genocide, it reads as you trying to pre-emptively absolve yourself of guilt for voting for her.
Trump has full on said he is going to be a dictator and that people won’t have to vote anymore. With Harris we still have a voice and vote, with Trump democracy is at risk.
Acting like she isn’t the best chance to even have a shot at fixing things is naive.
America isn’t a democracy, never was.
Additionally, if Trump has the ability to take away your right to vote if he takes office, he has the ability to take it away even if he doesn’t, you can’t politely vote fascism away.
Ok, so no one should vote. Laws don’t matter. Nothing is real.
Wait, so you’re saying he has the same power to effect laws as president as he does as citizen? That’s just very wrong… You know plenty of dictators were voted in at some point right? A history lesson might serve you well.
Ok, so no one should vote. Laws don’t matter. Nothing is real.
Again, interesting mental gymnastics.
Wait, so you’re saying he has the same power to effect laws as president as he does as citizen? That’s just very wrong… You know plenty of dictators were voted in at some point right? A history lesson might serve you well.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The ability for an American President to permanently or even temporarily take away the right to vote is so immense it would take a full on coup, at which point the original outcome of the election doesn’t matter. Many dictators were not voted in, you need to open a history book and see what causes fascism.
Here’s an exercise: why do you think fascism is rising in America? Is it ideas, or material conditions?
Where did I say that she was “Palenstine’s best hope for continued existence”? I said nothing of the sort, so thanks for putting words in my mouth. The truth of the matter is that the US will always send Israel bombs, but one candidate will do it more than the other. Palestine is fucked either way, unfortunately.
Third parties will not win, Trump will not be any better for Palestine than Kamala, and Kamala at least has better domestic policy anyway. I don’t feel guilty for voting for her when the other candidate literally wants me any my queer friends dead, along with Palestine. Sorry, not sorry.
Where did I say that she was “Palenstine’s best hope for continued existence”?
Didn’t realize you were a different person from the original commenter I was talking to. Speaking of, it’s helpful for people to have profile pics for that reason.
The truth of the matter is that the US will always send Israel bombs, but one candidate will do it more than the other.
How will one candidate do it more than the other? Is Trump going to build bombs himself? This is a bipartisan effort.
Third parties will not win, Trump will not be any better for Palestine than Kamala,
Correct, and Kamala will not be any better for Palestine than Trump, and pretending otherwise is monstrous.
I don’t feel guilty for voting for her when the other candidate literally wants me any my queer friends dead, along with Palestine. Sorry, not sorry.
Vote for whoever you want, just don’t pretend your vote for Harris is helping Palestinians. The US is dedicated to genocide either way.
I’m not going to upload a profile picture so that you can avoid reading.
Trump will give the military industrial complex more money. Look at what you’re doing now, you’re literally defending Trump. That’s a huge red flag, and you should maybe look at yourself and see why you are now defending him.
Did I say my vote would help Palenstine? No. I said it would keep the status quo, and that if Trump was elected it would only accelerate the genocide and also hurt myself and my queer friends. Are you a single issue voter?
Our two options are Trump or Kamala. There’s no chance a third party will win (by design). So, of those two, I definitely know who I’m voting for.
Trump will give the military industrial complex more money.
Lmao. How? Is he going to beg Congress to pass what they already are agreeing to pass?
Look at what you’re doing now, you’re literally defending Trump. That’s a huge red flag, and you should maybe look at yourself and see why you are now defending him.
Not at all, I think he’s a monstrous piece of shit, I just don’t think he has magic powers like you do.
Did I say my vote would help Palenstine? No. I said it would keep the status quo, and that if Trump was elected it would only accelerate the genocide
Again, materially, how?
Our two options are Trump or Kamala. There’s no chance a third party will win (by design). So, of those two, I definitely know who I’m voting for.
I don’t care who you vote for with respect to the genocide, both candidates support current US foreign policy and neither will change it, and pretending otherwise is monstrous.
“I didn’t realize I was talking to somebody else. But it shout fault for not being easily recognizable beyond the different name above your words.”
I admitted a mistake, and offered a suggestion, I didn’t cast fault. Touch grass.
So you see we’re between a rock and hard place, yet you’re focused on landing on a pillow.
That’s not going to happen. The hard place is gunna suck and hurt but the rock has sharp edges and will hurt more.
Point me in the direction of your preferred candidate then.
If I could pick anyone, it would be Claudia De La Crúz, but even if I vote for her she won’t win. I just want Liberals to stop pretending that voting for Harris will cease the genocide, because it won’t, and it’s monstrous to suggest otherwise.
Yep, you’re right that she wouldn’t win and you would be propping up Trump by voting for her. I don’t see any “liberals” saying she’ll stop the genocide, either. I only see you bringing up that point in this thread.
Read the thread, there are plenty of people on this thread pretending Harris will be better for Palestine, which is a lie.
Yep, you’re right that she wouldn’t win and you would be propping up Trump
Actually I’d be propping up Kamala by not voting for Trump.
Harris is Palestines best bet at continued existence. Sorry if that hurts your feelings or something…
continued existence is going to happen one way or the other. isreal is going for an american style genocide which means kill enough of the natives so that they’re a small, manageable enough number and then your country can spend the rest of its existence throwing enough $$$ at their reservations to ostensibly show you’re “super sorry” that you genocided so many of them; but not enough to for them to ever escape this newly imposed generational poverty and also without any promise that your country won’t ever fuck them over again in the future when another pipeline needs to be built.
You’re getting down voted but this is what it feels like watching our gargantuan government help eradicate an entire people. Like just fucken stop.
It sucks to see people think government runs on vibes and magic, as though bombs sent through crocodile tears are any less deadly than bombs sent with glee.
thats what no material analysis does to a mf. there is a reason why the parasitic genocidal western bourgeoisie encourages idealist worldviews, as liberals will reassure people that the universe will eventually somehow work in our favor. meanwhile, the systems built around exploitation are using well-organized scientific methods. the people who expanded colonial power and the larger global capitalist system are utilizing scientific principles to enable exploitation while hiding these processes from the working class.
100%. They think Trump is a warlock and his fascist magic will imbue the bombs both the DNC and GOP agree to send with extra power. That’s the only way their world view makes any sense at all, rather than looking at the world from a Materialist lense, there’s a grand battle of “Good vs Evil” fought in the ballot box, rather than economic interests and bourgeois infighting.
at least the brazenness of the current genocide made more people wake up to the crimes of western “civilization”
Hopefully the quantitative will shift to the qualitative before Gaza is flattened entirely.
It sucks to watch the knee jerk reaction as everyone rushes to defend because they are so afraid of Trump. Truly hampers progress on all sides with that attitude. We’re not saying something magical will happen. We aren’t saying a 3rd party will win. We are simply saying the genocide will continue because the US needs Israel for the Petro-Dollar, and once again lives are sacrificed to Mammon in the name of wealth.
Exactly, hopefully people realize that genocide is unconditional because its roots are economic, not moral, and states don’t move according to morals.
Over 10 of the downvotes so far are from zero-content accounts.
It’lll be interesting to see how pro-zionist or political party PACs devoted to social media influencing like (correct-the-record for the US democratic party) will affect the fediverse, and what we can do about it.
I think the most we can do about it is what you have already done and show awareness. Clearly we are already living among manipulators here in the fediverse. We can’t pretend we’re too small to be astroturfed or have any bad actors in here. We’re loaded just like every other social media.
You’re getting down voted but this is what it feels like watching our gargantuan government help eradicate an entire people…
– again.
sometimes the sense helplessness watching us repeat the history that everyone abhors makes me wish that i was a moderate so that i can fool myself into believing that voting for one genocider was better than voter for another genocider.
i also wonder if my existence at the intersection of several vulnerable communities would eventually dispel that world view anyways if i were a moderate since there are so many brown, immigrant, gay, autistic conservatives.
I’m honestly just sitting here wondering when the main bulk of any populace will realize it is always more beneficial to a society to help each other than it is to recreate the jungle of competition and struggles from which we came. It feels like we have forgotten that all of this was about making life easier and now endlessly chase a goal that can never be satisfied (profit).
wondering when the main bulk of any populace will realize it is always more beneficial to a society to help each other than it is to recreate the jungle of competition and struggles from which we came.
It isn’t necessarily about ideas, but course of development. We live in the era of Imperialism, ie large Monopoly and Financial Capital domination of the Global South from the Global North. The weakest links break, and Imperialism weakens. It’s a matter of time.
It’s a matter of time.
i wish that scale wasn’t in the centuries.
Probably won’t be at the rate we are going from this point on.
if you’re referring to climate change and i would expect that it would cause the 4th near human extinction event at a minimum; so there’s a chance humanity will survive and there will be some sort of a society if it does.
perhaps since we’ve exhausted most of the easily accessible sources of energy; maybe the next society won’t be able to advance past the next stone age on-wards to develop the industrial or technological capabilities that enable such absurd disparities in wealth they can afford to bend the entire world to their will for a genocide; rending 99% of the world helpless as they can do nothing but witness palestinians culled into numbers small enough that isreal no longer considers them a threat.
I saw a meme that was the trolly problem where voters could let the train continue and hit LGBT, racial minorites, [bunch of other stuff here], and Palestine (alluding to trump). or they could pull the lever and only hit Palestine and leave the other people alive (alluding to at the time Biden).
The bottom pannel was the voter saying “I refuse to participate in a broken system” as all the minorities got ran over by the train.
What an incredibly depressing position to be put in.
It might be the “objectively better” choice, but if I saw anyone enthusiastically pull that lever without a second thought I’d think they’re a psychopath. Like you’re still killing thousands upon thousands of people.
I’m not even saying don’t pull the lever, but it should eat at you.
If you don’t pull the lever, those people still die though.
So either pull the lever and (figuratively) 1000 people die, or don’t pull the lever and those same 1000 people die as well as (again figuratively) 5000 more people.
1000 killed if you don’t pull the lever
6000 killed if you do nothing, of which those same 1000 people are in.
If I saw someone hesitating to pull the lever I’d have a problem with em
The haters will downvote. But you’re right and they know it. And it drives them insane.
You can see they largely come from Lemmy.world accounts, the mods there are very friendly towards Zionism, unlike most other instances.
Imported reddit mods. Same power tripping authoritarians they’ve always been.
Lemmy.world is attempting to make Reddit 2, after all.
This seems to have devolved into blanket othering. Which is a great way to isolate yourself in an echo chamber.
The UI layout and elements of Lemmy.world are pretty close to exactly Reddit, without infringing copyright.
Regardless, I see liberalism for 95% of my waking life, liberal views are supported and leftist views are silenced, it’s nice to see more Leftism.
Nah, it’s just an understanding of nuance and being able to see the long term effects of this election. Everyone who is posting stuff like this doesn’t seem to give a fuck about anything but this. It seems you are all ready to let the world burn everywhere else as long as we stop sending bombs.
To be clear, I don’t support what’s happening, at all. Full stop. But we have to help decide the future of one of the strongest countries in the world, there’s plenty to consider. For example, maintaining your right to even vote to effect issues like this in the future.
It seems you are all ready to let the world burn everywhere else as long as we stop sending bombs.
Both Trump and Kamala are aligned on foreign policy, that’s something the DNC and GOP have been aligned on for forever.
But we have to help decide the future of one of the strongest countries in the world, there’s plenty to consider.
The sooner the American Empire loses hegemony the sooner the world can grow.
For example, maintaining your right to even vote to effect issues like this in the future.
If Trump can take away the right to vote by winning, he can do so if he loses. That level of power trancends the Presidency to begin with.
No average person wants genocide but we have to pick between two candidates. If you can’t see how one would be much worse in the long run than the other I dunno what to tell you. At least with one of them you can still vote and express your views. But nah, better to just roll the dice and boycott the both them hope for the best.
Yeah, man. We’re ugly-crying every day over it. You totally got us pegged. /s
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is putin in the toom with us right now?
no, he’s at home, paying these fucks with money stolen from ukraine. pffft
you seem to confuse him with western leaders and their compradors
pfft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting_by_Russian_forces_during_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Show me what the west took from russia.
Haven’t seen that meme source in a while.
So Trump gets elected, the genocide gets 10x worse, the right allows Israel to completely demolish Palastine and take their land.
Kamala gets elected, genocide might continue for a while, but at least we have time and still have a democracy and the chance to vote in people who will condemn genocide.
There is an effectively zero chance of any third party candidate winning the election, so if you care so much about genocide, throwing your vote away to third party where you would have otherwise voted for Kamala is essentially taking away a vote from Kamala and giving it to Trump, supporting even further genocide.
Any questions?
So Trump gets elected, the genocide gets 10x worse
Why would it get worse, materially, let alone 10 times? Harris has promised to never cease giving Israel bombs to “defend itself,” what’s Trump going to do to make it worse?
Kamala gets elected, genocide might continue for a while, but at least we have time and still have a democracy and the chance to vote in people who will condemn genocide.
Spoiler: there will not be that candidate. Next election in 4 years, if there are any Palestinians left, there will still be 2 Zionist candidates representing the DNC and GOP, and the anti-genocide candidates will be 3rd parties with little to no chance of winning.
Why would it get worse, materially, let alone 10 times? Harris has promised to never cease giving Israel bombs to “defend itself,” what’s Trump going to do to make it worse?
Because Republicans are entirely fans of Israel and would do anything to help them… This is common information, have you been living under a fucking rock? Republicans have repeatedly shown that they will help Israel.
Spoiler: there will not be that candidate. Next election in 4 years, if there are any Palestinians left, there will still be 2 Zionist candidates representing the DNC and GOP, and the anti-genocide candidates will be 3rd parties with little to no chance of winning.
Nobody knows that for sure. If people care about it, they will run for office. It sounds like you prioritize the presidential elections and ignore local elections, because those are what matter in getting “that candidate”.
Because Republicans are entirely fans of Israel and would do anything to help them
As are the DNC, are you living under a rock?
Nobody knows that for sure. If people care about it, they will run for office. It sounds like you prioritize the presidential elections and ignore local elections, because those are what matter in getting “that candidate”.
Ah, the “vibe a candidate that can take the office from an incumbent out of thin-air” approach. And no, local elections are far more consequential, not sure where you think I suggested otherwise.
The third parties have 0 chance of winning. So which is better? Kamala, who might actually listen to the public, or Trump, who won’t listen and will do whatever he wants to Palestine?
Neither, both support the bipartisan US foreign policy of genocide. Harris will not “listen to the public,” she will listen to the fact that the US needs Israel to keep the Middle East tied up and secure the Petro-Dollar as the World’s Currency.
Neither Trump nor Harris will cease the genocide.
Did I say that she would cease the genocide? Do you always just put words in other people’s mouths? That’s a poor strategy for getting people to listen to you.
Palestine will continue to be genocided. Do you want the genocide to go faster (Trump) or stay at the same speed? If you want it to go faster, you can just say to vote for Trump (and a vote for a third party will give power to those voting for Trump, so the same result).
Palestine will continue to be genocided. Do you want the genocide to go faster (Trump) or stay at the same speed?
How is Trump going to make it worse? This is a bipartisan genocide, is him being in office going to make the scheduled bomb shipments magically more powerful?
No, but he has full power to be able to alter the schedule to send more bombs. That’s the point that you can’t seem to realize - he hates Palestine and would love to get closer with the nationalists in Israel. He would do everything in his power to allow more and more shipments from our bottomless inventory of weaponry.
Do you want the Zionists to be given bombs more often? Because voting for Trump or a third party will get you there.
How will he do this, materially? Congress sets the shipments, is he going to personally buy more bombs and send them via UPS?
Trump won’t do whatever. He has said in the debate that he will let Israel finish the job. That’s not ambiguous.
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